Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/09/1998 03:22 PM House L&C
| Audio | Topic |
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE
March 9, 1998
3:22 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chairman
Representative John Cowdery, Vice Chairman
Representative Bill Hudson
Representative Jerry Sanders
Representative Joe Ryan
Representative Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Gene Kubina
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 122
"An Act relating to unfair discrimination under a group health
insurance policy for services provided by marital and family
therapists; and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED HCS SB 122(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 392
"An Act relating to access by the Department of Environmental
Conservation and the Department of Fish and Game to confidential
tax records for fisheries resources prepared or kept by the
Department of Revenue under AS 43.75; relating to certain salmon
products reports; and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 392(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 142
"An Act relating to the sale or transfer of new or used motor
vehicles; relating to the confidentiality of certain information
related to attorney general investigations of unlawful trade
practices and antitrust activities; establishing additional
unlawful trade practices; relating to the exemptions from
telephonic solicitation regulation; regulating the sale of business
opportunities; amending Rules 4 and 73, Alaska Rules of Civil
Procedure; and providing for an effective date."
- FAILED TO MOVE CSSSHB 142(L&C)
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: SB 122
SHORT TITLE: INS.COVERAGE:MARRIAGE & FAMILY THERAPIST
SPONSOR(S): LABOR & COMMERCE BY REQUEST
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
03/06/97 597 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/06/97 597 (S) L&C, HES
04/08/97 (S) L&C AT 1:30 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203
04/08/97 (S) MINUTE(L&C)
04/09/97 1049 (S) L&C RPT CS 1DP 3NR SAME TITLE
04/09/97 1049 (S) DP: LEMAN; NR: KELLY, MACKIE, MILLER
04/09/97 1049 (S) ZERO FN TO SB & CS (DCED)
04/16/97 (S) HES AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH ROOM 205
04/16/97 (S) MINUTE(HES)
04/16/97 1164 (S) HES RPT 3DP 2NR (L&C)CS
04/16/97 1164 (S) DP: WARD, LEMAN, ELLIS; NR: GREEN,
WILKEN
04/16/97 1164 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FN (DCED)
04/21/97 (S) RLS AT 10:45 AM FAHRENKAMP RM 203
04/21/97 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
04/21/97 1331 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 4/21/97
04/21/97 1344 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
04/21/97 1344 (S) L&C CS ADOPTED Y15 N4 E1
04/21/97 1344 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN
CONSENT
04/21/97 1344 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 122(L&C)
04/21/97 1345 (S) PASSED Y13 N6 E1
04/21/97 1345 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE PASSED Y15 N4 E1
04/21/97 1345 (S) DUNCAN NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION
04/22/97 1420 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING
04/22/97 1420 (S) PLACED AT BOTTOM OF CALENDAR
04/22/97 1429 (S) HELD ON RECONSIDERATION TO 4/23
CALENDAR
04/23/97 1452 (S) BEFORE THE SENATE ON RECONSIDERATION
04/23/97 1452 (S) RETURN TO RLS COMMITTEE
05/08/97 (S) RLS AT 8:25 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203
05/08/97 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
05/09/97 1891 (S) RULES TO CAL ON RECONSIDERATION IN
3RD
05/09/97 1923 (S) IN THIRD READING ON RECONSIDERATION
05/09/97 1923 (S) RTN 2ND RESCIND PREVIOUS ACTION UAN
CON
05/09/97 1924 (S) RESCINDED ADOPTING L&C CS Y13 N6 E1
05/09/97 1924 (S) FAILED TO ADOPT L&C CS Y4 N15 E1
05/09/97 1924 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING SB 122
05/09/97 1925 (S) LETTER OF INTENT FAILED Y7 N12 E1
05/09/97 1926 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y15 N4 E1
05/09/97 1926 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE
05/09/97 1932 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
05/09/97 1786 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
05/09/97 1786 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, L&C, WTR
02/19/98 (H) STA AT 9:05 AM CAPITOL 102
02/19/98 (H) MINUTE(STA)
02/23/98 2403 (H) STA RPT HCS(STA) 4DP 2NR
02/23/98 2403 (H) DP: JAMES, ELTON, BERKOWITZ, DYSON;
02/23/98 2403 (H) NR: IVAN, HODGINS
02/23/98 2403 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DCED)
03/02/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
03/02/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/09/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 392
SHORT TITLE: REPORTS: FISH TAX & SALMON PRODUCTS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) AUSTERMAN, Hudson
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/11/98 2280 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/11/98 2280 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE
02/18/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
02/18/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/09/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 142
SHORT TITLE: BUSINESS PRACTICE REGULATIONS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) DAVIS, Croft
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/17/97 374 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/17/97 374 (H) L&C, JUDICIARY
02/19/97 408 (H) COSPONSOR(S): CROFT
04/08/97 1025 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED -
REFERRALS
04/08/97 1025 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE, JUDICIARY
05/02/97 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
05/02/97 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
05/05/97 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
05/05/97 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
10/15/97 (H) L&C AT 1:00 PM ANCHORAGE LIO
10/15/97 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
10/20/97 (H) L&C AT 1:00 PM ANCHORAGE LIO
10/20/97 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
02/04/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
02/04/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/09/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
DIXIE HOOD, Board Member
Marital and Family Therapy Board;
licensed marital and family therapist
222 Seward Street, Suite 210
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-2200
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional information on SB 122.
PAT CLASBY, licensed marital and family therapist
211 Fourth Street, Suite 114
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 463-6753
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional information on SB 122
representing the Alaska Association for
Marriage and Family Therapists.
LARANE DERR
Alaska State Hospital and Nursing Home Association
319 Seward Street, Suite 11
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-1790
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HCS SB 122(STA).
ANNETTE KREITZER, Legislative Assistant
to Senator Loren Leman
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 113
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3844
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered question on SB 122.
SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant
to Chairman Rokeberg
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 24
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4954
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on SB 122; explained
proposed CS for SSHB 142.
REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 434
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2487
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 392.
PAUL DICK, Revenue Audit Supervisor I
Income and Excise Audit Division
Department of Revenue
P.O. Box 110420
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0420
Telephone: (907) 465-3691
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 392.
RICK LAUBER, Lobbyist
for Pacific Seafood Processors Association
321 Highland Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-6366
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 392.
DEB DAVIDSON, Legislative Administrative Assistant
to Representative Gary Davis
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 513
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2693
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SSHB 142.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-28, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIRMAN NORMAN ROKEBERG called the House Labor and Commerce
Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:22 p.m. Members present
at the call to order were Representatives Rokeberg, Cowdery,
Hudson, Sanders and Brice. Representative Ryan arrived at 3:34
p.m.
SB 122 - INS.COVERAGE:MARRIAGE & FAMILY THERAPIST
Number 0046
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced the committee's first order of business
would be SB 122, "An Act relating to unfair discrimination under a
group health insurance policy for services provided by marital and
family therapists; and providing for an effective date." He
requested only new testimony on SB 122, stating it was his
intention to move the bill out of committee.
Number 0088
DIXIE HOOD, Board Member, Marital and Family Therapy Board;
licensed marital and family therapist, came forward to testify.
She commented she had made some clarifying notations on the
insurance company denial form she submitted at the March 2, 1998,
hearing, in response to questions raised.
Number 0126
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG directed the committee's to the additional
information the March 9 memorandum.
Number 0169
PAT CLASBY, licensed marital and family therapist, came forward to
testify. She stated she represented the Alaska Association for
Marriage and Family Therapists. She referred to two questions
posed at the previous hearing: 1) what insurance companies do
cover marital and family therapists, 2) what insurance companies do
not. She noted they have done a very informal survey on some of
the private practitioners in the Anchorage area, speaking with
their billing clerks. She noted this information was not complete,
but thought it might give the committee a better understanding of
the actual practice.
Number 0230
LARANE DERR, Alaska State Hospital and Nursing Home Association
(ASHNHA), came forward to testify. She stated the ASHNHA supports
the current version of SB 122 before the committee, noting the bill
has been amended and unamended.
Number 0269
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG confirmed the unamended version was currently
before the committee. He asked Ms. Kreitzer if it was correct that
the Senate wished the bill to be moved as it is.
ANNETTE KREITZER, Legislative Assistant to Senator Loren Leman,
answered in the affirmative
Number 0321
REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE made a motion to move HCS SB 122(STA) with
individual recommendations and zero fiscal note.
Number 0340
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any objections.
Number 0347
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON objected for discussion purposes. He
confirmed this was Version K of SB 122.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that was his understanding.
SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant to Representative Norman
Rokeberg, stated this was the version that came through.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON removed his objection.
Number 0365
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated, there being no objections, HCS SB
122(STA) was so moved.
HB 392 - REPORTS: FISH TAX & SALMON PRODUCTS
Number 0385
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated the committee's next item of business was
HB 392, "An Act relating to access by the Department of
Environmental Conservation and the Department of Fish and Game to
confidential tax records for fisheries resources prepared or kept
by the Department of Revenue under AS 43.75; relating to certain
salmon products reports; and providing for an effective date."
Number 0457
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG called a brief at ease at 3:26 p.m. The
committee came back to order at 3:28 p.m.
Number 0463
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON moved Version K of HB 392, labeled 0-
LS1423\K, Bannister, dated 2/26/98, for discussion purposes.
Number 0482
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated, there being no objections, the proposed
CS was before the committee.
Number 0493
REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN came forward as the sponsor of HB
392. He noted there had been a couple of small changes and one
major change since the committee's previous hearing on HB 392. The
major change was the deletion of the audit provision.
Representative Austerman said there had been the issue of requiring
an audit and having the negotiation agency come in and ask for an
audit. He said they found that the harvesters had never really
requested an audit. In his discussions with the Department of
Revenue (DOR) he was told that DOR had the broad authority to do
audits but had never been requested to do one. Representative
Austerman noted there was the question as to who would pay for the
audit if one was requested, but they decided it was best to remove
the entire provision and advise the harvesters to request an audit.
He said that then if the harvesters had problems, those problems
could be identified, and it could be brought back at a later date.
Representative Austerman noted the exemption of the very small
processors, in the 240,000 pounds or less category, from the
reporting requirements. He said they did not really feel it was
necessary for these processors to be involved in the reporting
requirements so that 240,000 pound cap was inserted. He noted they
had discussed this a little bit with DOR. Representative Austerman
said the harvesters, processors and DOR all agreed that was
probably a good thing.
Number 0643
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned if that had been the amendment before
the committee at the previous hearing on HB 392.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN responded in the affirmative, stating that
was part of the amendment before the committee last time and was
incorporated into Version K.
Number 0650
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG referred to Section 3, page 2, where he said it
provides, "The commissioner shall, upon request, furnish the
Department of Environmental Conservation or the Department of Fish
and Game copies of tax returns" and he asked Representative
Austerman to explain the rationale behind that.
Number 0671
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated he thought that was part of the
attempt to consolidate the collection of basically the same
information from the processors by three agencies. He said the
processors would report to DOR, and DOR would then furnish
information to the other departments if it was requested, noting
the departments were currently receiving that information.
Number 0708
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there was someone present from the
Administration to answer questions and said, "It says 'copies of
the tax returns' -- if they're getting the information, is it the
entire tax return that they need to provided 'em with ...?"
Number 0735
PAUL DICK, Revenue Audit Supervisor I, Income and Excise Audit
Division, Department of Revenue, came forward. He said DOR
collects fishery business taxes and licenses fishery businesses.
Number 0746
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG referred to the nature of the information
mentioned in Section 3 and the necessity for the Department of Fish
and Game (ADF&G) and the Department of Environmental Conservation
(DEC) to have that information.
Number 0757
MR. DICK stated, as he noted Representative Austerman had said,
that they were trying to consolidate the information so the fishery
businesses would only have to report once to the state, commenting
that currently the businesses are reporting basically the same
information to three agencies. Mr. Dick said this "falls on the
heels" of the already implemented consolidated licensing process,
which was possible because licensing is public information. Mr.
Dick indicated DOR would receive the information in the proposed
consolidation, and then share it with the other two agencies
because the tax information is confidential.
Number 0814
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked specifically what information were these
departments looking for, noting it was certainly not the
businesses' entire tax return.
Number 0826
MR. DICK stated that ADF&G currently collects value and poundage
information. He said DOR also collects this information and goes
a step further by having the businesses multiply their value by a
percentage to calculate the businesses' tax liability. Mr. Dick
said the point would be to have the fishery businesses only report
the information to DOR. He said because DOR's information is
confidential and the department currently does not have
authorization in statute to share that information with ADF&G and
DEC, the businesses must report this information to each of the
individual agencies.
Number 0872
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if DOR couldn't just give the other
agencies the specific information they were looking for and not the
business's whole tax return.
Number 0880
MR. DICK stated DOR could not under the current provisions of AS
43.05.230, its disclosure statute, which currently prohibits DOR
from sharing that information with those departments. He noted
there was a provision in AS 43.05.230 which specifically allowed
DOR to share mining tax information with the Department of Natural
Resources (DNR), and that is currently being done. He said DOR is
looking for that kind of authorization to extend to ADF&G and DEC.
Number 0916
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN referred to page 2, lines 24 through 27,
"The Department of Environmental Conservation and the Department of
Fish and Game shall maintain the confidentiality that the
Department of Revenue is required to extend to the returns,
reports, determinations, work papers, and other documents furnished
under this subsection.", indicating he thought it explained that
the confidentiality had to be maintained.
Number 0924
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he appreciated needing the authority to make
a single report, noting he didn't see anything being repealed here
and asked if the reporting requirements to DEC and ADF&G were
currently in regulation.
Number 0945
MR. DICK said he believed those were statutory requirements for
those agencies. He said ADF&G has its commercial operator annual
report which he believed was a statutory provision, and he said DEC
collects summary-type information from the fishery businesses. Mr.
Dick noted that summary information was what DOR would share with
DEC.
Number 0979
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated it said "copies of the tax returns,
reports, or other documents filed under [AS] 43. ..." He asked
what AS 43.75 was.
Number 0992
MR. DICK replied that was the fishery business tax.
Number 0998
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked, "Couldn't this be drafted in such a manner
as that they would file their tax returns with your department and
then you, in turn, would only give that information from their tax
returns that these particular departments needed, rather than their
entire tax return?"
Number 1017
MR. DICK said that was unfortunately not the case; under AS
43.05.230 all information on the tax return is considered
confidential, so if anybody were to request only certain parts of
the information on any tax return, DOR could not disclose that
information. He noted this was not just for the fishery business
tax but for any tax return received through DOR.
Number 1047
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that was not his question. He asked, "Why
can't you just provide that part of the information which the DEC
and fish and game wants ... without sending the entire tax return?"
Number 1062
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated he was looking at AS 43.75 which he
said was pretty inclusive, and he asked if they weren't really
talking about the fisheries business tax when they were talking
about tax returns.
Number 1079
MR. DICK responded in the affirmative.
Number 1083
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON suggested they specify AS 43.75.015 which
would only refer, then, to the fisheries business tax.
Representative Hudson said he thought he understood the Chairman's
concern about releasing full tax returns, which was pretty
comprehensive, and stated, " But if we were to relate that 'other
documents filed under 43.75.015,' which would just apply then to
the fisheries business tax, which is, I think Mr. Chairman, is what
they're trying to get to .... If that would be pertinent, I think
that would be a reasonable amendment."
Number 1118
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Mr. Dick if that would be possible.
Number 1122
MR. DICK said then, as he understood it, line 24 would be amended
to specify AS 43.75.015.
Number 1136
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said they would go up to line 21, stating, "You
wouldn't furnish them with the copies of the tax return. You would
furnish them with the reports required under 43.75, is that right
Representative Hudson?"
Number 1143
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON replied that it would be the tax returns and
reports required under AS 43.75.015 only, noting that he thought it
was a separate business tax filing.
Number 1158
MR. DICK stated that under AS 43.75.015 the DOR just collected tax
returns, it did not collect reports like the current canned salmon
reports. The information DOR was receiving under AS 43.75.015 was
the tax return.
Number 1173
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said possibly one of the sources of his confusion
has been what tax return they were talking about, noting it was
only the fishery tax return, not corporate or business tax returns.
Number 1190
MR. DICK stated that was correct, the businesses' corporate tax
return would fall under AS 43.20 and other tax returns fall under
other chapters of Title 43.
Number 1199
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if this particular tax return was a one-
page document.
Number 1205
MR. DICK replied it was probably a ten-page tax return because DOR
collects a lot of information by species, pounds and value, which,
he added, is also what ADF&G collects.
Number 1219
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked what DEC's interest was in this
information.
Number 1229
MR. DICK noted DEC would like to base its license fees on the
processors' actual activity.
Number 1235
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if DEC had a license fee for fishing.
Number 1243
MR. DICK replied in the affirmative. He indicated every fishery
business has to be licensed with DEC to meet certain water and air
quality standards, and indicated other aspects of fishery business
were also regulated by DEC.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN commented he thought DEC's license fee was
up to approximately $1,200.
Number 1259
There was a brief discussion which clarified that DEC licensed the
fish processors, and that the tax returns in question were from the
processors, not the fishermen.
Number 1289
REPRESENTATIVE JOE RYAN said he, too, had an interest in the
discussion involving the role of DEC. He asked if this would add
to DEC's role as far as oversight was concerned, giving DEC more
power than it currently has.
MR. DICK responded he did not believe so.
Number 1324
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said DEC already has the authority to
collect that report, and the attempt was being made to concentrate
it into one reporting form so the processors do not have to report
to three different agencies. He said those other two agencies
would then be able to obtain that information from DOR.
Number 1341
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if the drafter had examined the other
statutes, noting he did not see a repealer.
Number 1346
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated he had made a note to look that up.
Number 1351
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG commented it was nice to take laws away when they
add them, particularly if an attempt was being made to consolidate
something.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN noted if he found that those statutes
could be repealed because of this, they would introduce it on the
Senate side and get it done.
Number 1362
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN commented on the zero fiscal note. He said his
experience in the last two years has been that when the
Administration wants to do something, it has zero fiscal notes, and
when they want to do something, they get piled with all kinds of
money, and he was just wondering how they were going to keep track
of these extra reports and so forth without additional
expenditures.
Number 1388
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated he thought the sponsor said the reports
were already required, so he assumed there would be no fiscal
impact.
Number 1398
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON noted the committee had not had a formal
discussion on AS 43.75.015. He asked if the Chairman would
consider an amendment on page 2, line 22, after "43.75" add ".015"
which, Representative Hudson said, would isolate it to the
fisheries business tax, and all reference above that then would
only relate to the fisheries business tax. He stated he believed
there were other enhancement taxes in AS 43.75.
Number 1452
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG added that there was also a reference to it in
line 24.
Number 1457
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said he didn't really see a problem with
inserting that.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated he would insert it in both places.
The amended language would read:
The commissioner shall, upon request, furnish to the
Department of Environmental Conservation or the
Department of Fish and Game copies of tax returns,
reports, or other documents filed under AS 43.75.015, and
copies of the Department of Revenue's determinations and
work papers related to those documents filed under AS
43.75.015.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the bill went to the House Finance
Standing Committee next.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG responded he believed this was the only committee
of referral.
Number 1469
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that the suggestion might be to alter
the language so that it read, "The commissioner shall, upon
request, furnish to the Department of Environmental Conservation or
the Department of Fish and Game copies of documents filed under AS
43.75.015, and copies of the Department of Revenue's determinations
and work papers related to those documents." given that only one
tax, AS 43.75.015, was being referenced there. He commented on the
language "copies of documents filed under AS 43.75.015", asking if
that was the information they wanted.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG replied that was correct.
Number 1533
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said it was all a matter of semantics, the
two suggestions did the same thing. He stated, "I would say
conceptual, Mr. Chairman, that we adopt '015' after '43.75' in the
two locations and then if ..."
Number 1552
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Representative Brice to make a formal
motion on his suggested language.
Number 1558
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE moved that they delete on page 2, line 21,
"tax returns", on line 22, "reports, or other", and then add on
line 22, "43.75.015", and then leave it to the discretion of the
committee whether they wanted to add "015" on line 24 after AS
43.75.
Number 1599
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he thought those were separate things,
noting those were the work papers. He asked Mr. Dick to speak
about the work paper requirement.
Number 1606
MR. DICK replied he believed that was addressing the situation
where DOR has an examination or audit and DOR goes out and finds
additional value or poundage related to the tax return.
Number 1618
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said, "So like if there was an error in the
return and you went and got further ... So we prefer to see that
language remain in there ...." Chairman Rokeberg said he would
like to add ".015" on line 24 to the amendment. He stated the
amended section would then read:
(i) The commissioner shall, upon request, furnish to the
Department of Environmental Conservation or the
Department of Fish and Game copies of documents filed
under AS 43.75.015, and copies of the Department of
Revenue's determinations and working papers related to
those documents filed under AS 43.75.015. [NOTE:
previous language contained "work papers"]
Number 1658
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any objections to the
amendment. There being none, he stated the amendment was adopted.
Number 1677
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked, regarding the work papers, et cetera,
were they talking about DOR materials, or the materials of the
person who submitted the return.
Number 1680
MR. DICK stated that would be the DOR's work papers.
Number 1687
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN noted the materials of the person submitting
the return are not usually seen until a court subpoenas or orders
them.
Number 1697
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Mr. Lauber if these fixes made him feel any
better.
Number 1708
RICK LAUBER, Lobbyist for Pacific Seafood Processors Association,
came forward to testify. He answered the Chairman's question in a
strong affirmative. He said he certainly appreciated the work that
had been done and he thinks it makes it a much better bill. He
said the bill says much of what he was trying to express at the
previous hearing. He noted there were two other things, but he was
not going to ask this committee address them, indicating he had
discussed them with the Chairman of the House Special Committee on
Fisheries, Representative Austerman. Mr. Lauber said he thought
the changes would be housekeeping in nature. He referred to page
4, lines 25 and 26, "(A) cash discounts allowed on sales, not to
exceed one and one-half percent; and". He noted that was an old
system, they now give 2 percent discounts for cash. Reiterating
his desire not to hold up the bill's passage, he stated he was also
interested in some provision to examine this three or five years
down the line to see if it was being used. Mr. Lauber said if it
was being used then leave it in place; if it was not, remove only
the reporting part. He commented that it is three reports, noting
he had previously objected to the change from two to three reports
per year because of the extra workload. However, he said that was
a small price to pay if it was going to help.
Number 1844
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said he was prepared to offer the suggested
amendment, stating, "On page 4, line 25, to change 'one and one-
half' to 'two' percent, which is current." He said that would be
a very simple amendment to make and then they would have taken care
of it.
Number 1868
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated he did not have a problem with that
change, but would like to have time to discuss the sunset clause.
MR. LAUBER added he certainly agreed.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON clarified his statement had been a motion.
Number 1887
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any objections to the motion
before the committee. Hearing none, he stated the amendment was so
adopted.
Number 1892
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY made a motion to move Version K of HB
392, as amended, to the next committee of referral with individual
recommendations and the attached fiscal note.
Number 1910
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any objections. There being
none, CSHB 392(L&C) was so moved.
Number 1915
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG called a brief at ease at 3:56 p.m. The
committee came back to order at 3:57 p.m.
SSHB 142 - BUSINESS PRACTICE REGULATIONS
Number 1917
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated the committee's next order of business
was SSHB 142, "An Act relating to the sale or transfer of new or
used motor vehicles; relating to the confidentiality of certain
information related to attorney general investigations of unlawful
trade practices and antitrust activities; establishing additional
unlawful trade practices; relating to the exemptions from
telephonic solicitation regulation; regulating the sale of business
opportunities; amending Rules 4 and 73, Alaska Rules of Civil
Procedure; and providing for an effective date."
Number 1918
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY moved Version H of SSHB 142, labeled 0-
LS0418\H, Bannister, dated 3/9/98, for discussion purposes. There
being no objections, it was so ordered.
Number 1944
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG called a brief at ease at 3:58 p.m. The
committee came back to order at 3:59 p.m.
Number 1955
SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant to Representative Norman
Rokeberg, came forward to explain the proposed committee
substitute. She stated Version H includes a number of changes
discussed at the last hearing. The sponsor had recommended
deleting "new" (relating to new motor vehicles) from the title.
She said this was accomplished as other sections were deleted. A
second change was suggested by Michael Stepp of the Alaska Auto
Dealers Association allowing the buyer to waive the right to the
emissions certification (I/M) inspection. This new language is on
page 2, line 8, of the proposed CS, and reads:
* Sec.2. AS 45.45.400 is amended by adding a new
subsection to read:
(c) The requirements of (a) of this section do not
apply if, before entering into the contract, the person
who is engaged in the business of selling used motor
vehicles obtains from the prospective buyer, transferee,
or assignee, or from the agent of the prospective buyer,
transferee, or assignee, a signed written statement that
the prospective buyer, transferee, or assignee, or the
agent of the prospective buyer, transferee, or assignee,
waives the requirements of (a) of this section.
MS. ARMSTRONG indicated Daveed Schwartz, Assistant Attorney
General, Commercial Section, Civil Division, Department of Law,
said that this right cannot be waived under the consumer products
statute if there is no statute to the contrary. She stated, "So
for purposes of this section, for this purpose, you can waive it."
Ms. Armstrong commented Sections 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 of SSHB 142 have
been deleted. She noted there were no problems associated with the
information about mail-order and this was left intact in the new
version [Section 7 on page 6, beginning on line 7, of SSHB 142
becomes Section 4, beginning on page 2, line 17, of Version H].
Ms. Armstrong said Chapter 66 had been reduced from 13 pages to 3
pages in the new version. She commented this was the smallest she
could reduce it without eliminating it altogether, indicating it
had been reduced to the items that would not make it an extra
burden but still provide some information about business
opportunity sellers coming from outside Alaska. She commented the
registration and language about names and addresses of not only the
seller but also the seller's agents has be retained, but there is
no bonding requirement or similar requirements that were mentioned
in the previous version.
Number 2121
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked if Version F was available yet to the
automobile dealers in the Anchorage and Fairbanks areas.
MS. ARMSTRONG indicated the committee had just received the bill
and it was not yet available to those groups.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG noted this version adopts the language Mr. Stepp
brought to the committee.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY noted he understood, but said he would feel
more comfortable if the association had an opportunity to look at
it.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated he was not touching this bill again.
MS. ARMSTRONG said this is the fourth hearing on this bill.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN suggested the committee hold it for a while
more.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested the committee vote on the bill.
Number 2160
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the bill's title met the single
subject requirement.
MS. ARMSTRONG said it all falls under Title 45, the consumer
products portion of the statutes.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON confirmed that although the bill mixes used
motor vehicles with telephonic solicitations and sales of business
opportunities it still fit within the purviews of the statutes. He
noted it seemed broad-based.
Number 2192
MS. ARMSTRONG noted Section 45.66.050 of the proposed CS, on page
4, concerning the seller's records and files, had been retained
from SSHB 142 but had been changed slightly [Section 45.66.170 of
SSHB 142, page 15]. The original version required records to be
kept for four years and this requires three, which is the same as
for tax records. She commented Section 45.66.060, coordination
with other laws, had also been in the original bill [Section
45.66.220 of SSHB 142, page 18]. Referring to Section 45.66.070 of
the proposed CS, the exemptions, she noted Chairman Rokeberg had
mentioned those individuals currently registered with the Division
of Occupational Licensing for these kinds of activities should not
have to register again. Ms. Armstrong stated Section 45.66.080,
regulations, had been taken from the original bill [Section
45.66.230 of SSHB 142, page 18]. She said the definitions section
had been reduced in the proposed CS and indicated that hopefully
the definition of business opportunity is clearer. She commented
that some of the definitions on page 5 of Version H had been taken
from the previous version. Ms. Armstrong noted the bill had been
reduced from 22 to 5 pages.
Number 2251
REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS referred to sales of business
opportunities, asking if he would have to go through all this if he
had a small business and wanted to sell it.
MS. ARMSTRONG replied he would not if he used a real estate agent
and she also did not think so if he was selling it on his own, for
sale by owner (FISBO).
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS asked who would be affected by this.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said he would be affected by it if he wanted to
franchise his business.
Number 2274
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Ms. Armstrong for clarification.
MS. ARMSTRONG replied she did not know, commenting that there was
someone from the department who could answer that question.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated Ms. Armstrong was very knowledgeable
about the bill. He said he didn't know if there was a FISBO
exception in the bill except for real estate licensees.
Number 2284
MS. ARMSTRONG said the only reason she mentioned it is that under
"0888" the new exemptions would cover that.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG noted that was just for real estate licenses and
did not cover these, stating Representative Sanders' question is
well-taken.
Number 2295
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON referred to page 4, lines 27 and 28, under
definition of business opportunities, which to him seems to include
the seller or person recommended by the seller, "... the seller or
person recommended will provide to the buyer services, ...".
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that's not clear.
Number 2321
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said he thinks this would apply to legitimate
multi-level marketing companies which Amway Corporation set the
standard for. He commented he didn't feel anything was broken here
so nothing needed to be fixed. He thought it would provide a lot
of employment for the consumer protection division of the attorney
general's office but other than that he didn't know how they were
furthering the public interest with passage of this bill.
Number 2348
MS. ARMSTRONG referred to page 4, line 11, which speaks about
coordination with other laws. She noted the previous bill used an
entire page to list all the exemptions, and this version simply
reads:
(a) This chapter does not apply to a sale or offer
to sell if regulation of the sale or offer is preempted
by federal law.
(b) Except as provided in (a) of this section, if
this chapter conflicts with another provision of state
law, the other provision of law governs to the extent of
the conflict.
Number 2371
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG reminded the committee that he believes the
attorney general's objective in this section is to try to obtain
some control and regulation over what is called the "ballroom sales
pitch." Chairman Rokeberg said, however, he thinks the attorney
general took the absolutely wrong approach, writing 16 pages of
licensing law which this committee hates. He noted he appreciated
Ms. Armstrong's efforts to winnow this down but thinks it creates
as many problems as it tries to fix.
MS. ARMSTRONG commented that was her best effort to reduce 22 pages
without deleting every section.
Number 2423
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN referred to a 10,000 year old Persian saying
found in the writings of Herodotus (ph), "A buyer needs a hundred
eyes, a seller needs but one." Commenting on the role of personal
responsibility he said it is impossible to protect everybody from
everything, and he does not know that it is their job.
Number 2445
DEB DAVIDSON, Legislative Administrative Assistant to
Representative Gary Davis, came forward to testify as the sponsor's
representative. She said she has had time to briefly review the
proposed CS and appreciates the amount of hard work that went into
it. She stated, "The question that came up regarding the type of
businesses ... that might or not be covered, and the chairman was
right in - in that the intent of that section is to cover those
type ..." [TESTIMONY INTERRUPTED BY TAPE CHANGE]
TAPE 98-28, SIDE B
Number 0001
MS. DAVIDSON continued, "... just a slight suggestion is that in
the original bill, there was a section of exemptions and although
it may very well be covered ... in this phrasing that says federal
law supersedes this and that if it's in conflict with another state
statute the other state statute takes precedence, but what we could
consider doing would be to just to put the section of exemptions
back in to make it very clear, because those exemptions did cover
the franchise." She noted it covered legitimate businesses such as
Amway Corporation and Avon, and this might be a way to clarify
that. She said the other changes still probably cover the
sponsor's intent, noting he recognizes there are some difficult
sections, and there are also a lot of sections in the bill he felt
were important. Commenting that the bill has two more committees
of referral and the sponsor's interest is in having the bill move
forward, she said she believes he wouldn't have any major
objections to what has been done. Referring to the deletion of the
sections relating to confidentiality, Ms. Davidson said she didn't
know if the sponsor had any strong feelings about that, noting it
simply put current policy into statute.
Number 0077
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated that the exemptions section in the
original bill appear to be longer than bill version currently
before the committee.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN commented it was similar to HB 33.
Number 0097
MS. DAVIDSON said the exemptions section was actually about a page
long, beginning on page 17 of the original bill and perhaps not all
those exemptions are required.
Number 0133
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG moved a conceptual amendment to adopt the
provisions of Section 45.66.210 of the original sponsor substitute
; lines 8-31 on page 17 and lines 1-11 on page 18 ["lines 1 through
11 on line 18" stated on tape] of SSHB 142; going to the exemption
section on page 4 of the proposed CS. There being no objections,
the amendment was so adopted.
Number 0177
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE indicated he would make a motion to move the
bill if the chairman was ready.
Number 0183
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY indicated he would like to support
Representative Davis's bill but would prefer to have more time to
study this version although he was not happy at the thought of
another hearing. He commented he would like to at least put a "do
not rec" on it.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN indicated he would like to hold the bill.
Number 0215
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he wanted to follow the will of the
committee.
Number 0219
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN referred Mr. Schwartz's comment that a person,
in giving a waiver, could not sign away that right under whatever
federal provision and said he would like to hear some testimony
from those in the automobile industry. He referred to extensive
testimony the previous summer from the automobile dealers who, he
said, seemed willing to go along to make those provisions palatable
with their business. He indicated it would only be fair to give
this group a chance to comment if the committee was going to change
the bill so dramatically.
Number 0257
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said he would rather see the bill move,
continuing its journey through the process, if it was not the
chair's intention to bring it back up. He asked whether the chair
would consider one more hearing.
Number 0286
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the bill went to another committee.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG replied it has two more House referrals.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON commented he thought it would probably
receive plenty of hearings in the next two committees, stating he
did not think they could get much more out of this.
Number 0297
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE made a motion to move the proposed CS for SSHB
142, as amended, with individual recommendations and zero fiscal
note.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY objected to the motion.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Rokeberg, Hudson, and
Brice voted in favor of the motion. Representatives Cowdery,
Sanders and Ryan voted against. Representative Kubina was absent.
Therefore, CSSSHB 142(L&C) failed to move out of the House Labor
and Commerce Standing Committee with a vote of 3-3.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 0328
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG adjourned the House Labor and Commerce Standing
Committee meeting at 4:20 p.m.
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